where simon is and president obama is is where the liberal wing of the democratic party is. when you have senators members of the united states senate, like jay rockefeller, say though will not accept any level of enlightment reform, takes the negotiations and puts them in jeopardy before they even begun. what simon laid out is four step process everyone wants to see move forward and we'll have another trillion dollar deficit according to cbo moving into next year and we can't afford anymore like that. if we take what obama would be willing to support which is increase in the age of, again recipients and other type of reforms like that, then we have a legitimate negotiation as we move into it. but when you have liberal members of the democratic party stepping forward and saying before the process begins they will not accept any type of entitlement reform, it makes it untenable process from the beginning. jon: is it no entitlement reform, simon, or is it perhaps entitlement reform when it comes to medicare? i haven't heard anybody talk about reforming social security on democ